			    TRAVELLER Digest 450

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Complaints about GDW fudges; & Starship commissions by Svend.Andersen@vuw.ac.nz
  2) Good news/bad news for UK residents by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
  3) Re: Complaints about GDW fudges; & Starship commissions by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  4) Re: Ramparts (Re: AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!) by Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
  5) Rampart Errata by Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
  6) TL13 Zho PF by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  7) TL13 Zho Fighter by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:39:50 +0000
From: Svend.Andersen@vuw.ac.nz
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Complaints about GDW fudges; & Starship commissions
Message-ID: <Pine.VMS.3.91-vms-b4.951015191758.28345A-100000@matai.vuw.ac.nz>



  merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt) wrote:

> ...  Of the GDW designs I've checked *none* actually work.  What the hell is
> the deal?  I mean, hell, the masses are in the top group of general info on
> every design they published!  Didn't anyone bother to do the simple division
> required?
[...]
> I take it that canon designs don't actually have to have anything to do
> with the rules posted in FFS.  The idea of FFS isn't just that we can
> create our own stuff, it's that if we do we can share it and it'll be
> consistent... and it will be for all of us, just not anything GDW
> publishes.  Yeesh.

  I had noticed similar things with various designs, but had assumed I 
was either doing the math wrong, or misreading the rules... ;)  But it 
ties in interestingly with the other major thread running on this mailing 
list...

  Christopher Griffen wrote :

> Why don't we make this a regular thing...every so often, someone issues a
> 'Request for Tender'.  It doesn't have to be a competition, just a way of
> showcasing different approaches to starship (and other vehicle) design.
> Any takers?

  So - how about this request for tender...

  All the designs in the basic rule-book, but actually *following* the 
FFS design rules. :)

  Now, I know that some people may have done this already... and some of 
the designs are *definitely* non-optimal (grav-tank, anyone? :), but it'd 
be handy to have *some* designs that actually *follow* the rules... :)

---
Svend Andersen				"Ka to he ra, ka rere he ra."
					 - A sun sets, a day is born.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 17:23:36 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Good news/bad news for UK residents
Message-ID: <104@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

The good news:
The Regency Sourcebook has reached England already! I've just bought my copy 
from the Kingston Virgin Megastore.
The bad news:
It is priced very highly. It was 15 for a 92 page book, although the text size 
is somewhat smaller than Path of Tears etc. The price on the back is $20, which 
is already pretty steep, and with the price of importing it, this is getting 
far too expensive. GDW may well make a profit from Traveller players who are 
willing to pay this price, but it won't increase the popularity of Traveller 
with a wider audience. These high prices are likely to frighten off new players 
who otherwise might try Traveller, which is a great shame.
First impressions:
Looks good. The first part of the book is densely packed with cultural 
information on most of the significant races in the Marches, and background for 
the Regency. The core of the book is the full subsector maps with UWPs and 
notes on around five worlds/places of interest per subsector. Then the book is 
rounded off by some of the most creative published starships I've ever seen, 
and then the obligatory adverts. (Including that RAFM miniatures ad which still 
hasn't been corrected - They still offer 'Ship's Boasts' and 'Asian 
Mercenaries')

-- 
Brendan 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 12:25:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Complaints about GDW fudges; & Starship commissions
Message-ID: <9510151825.AA03134@Rt66.com>

Howdy,
 
>   So - how about this request for tender...
> 
>   All the designs in the basic rule-book, but actually *following* the 
> FFS design rules. :)
> 
>   Now, I know that some people may have done this already... and some of 
> the designs are *definitely* non-optimal (grav-tank, anyone? :), but it'd 
> be handy to have *some* designs that actually *follow* the rules... :)

If you don't mind trashing the min armor, you can get most of 'em into
compliance.  The Aurora is ***way*** off, however.  My TL13 Zhodani
Patrol Frigate will be posted today or tomorrow.  I took the liberty of
using the CT crew.  Otherwise it wouldn't exist (actually the crew is
like 20% higher than CT).  Without a spreadsheet it'd be damn near
impossible for someone to design a ship this tight, or any small craft
to some predetermined g rating since everything ends up being dependant
on mass.

Since it'll be the people on the list who use any of this, I'd like to
see a yeas and nays on trashing the gs*10 minimum armor rule, and what
the group thinks about pre-virus crew levels (I use the HAIS levels, but
without equipment, and assume that they'd be pushovers for the virus).

I'll compile results if people wanna vote on this...

Change minimum armor (to 10, say?): Yes or No
	If yes, then what level? (10, 20, etc.)

Have pre Virus crews for old ships, or non-RC use: Yes or No
	If yes, then what levels?  (.25xEng., Elec., and Maint. crews,
	then recalulate dependant crews (command, stewards, etc.)


This would be for RFT designs, at the very least.  Standard FFS designs
would always be acceptable as well.

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 13:49:52 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Ramparts (Re: AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!)
Message-ID: <199510151849.NAA14771@natasha.itlabs.umn.edu>

Merrick Burkhardt noted:

>Cool stuff.  Unfortunately the fix you posted is illegal if you don't
>trash the silly armor requirements.  I would be happy to ignore the
>gs*10 armor requirement myself as it is just plain dumb (given the
>bracing requirement of internal structure), but if I post designs that
>ignore it no one else can use it (unless they trash the rule).

Okay.  I must have forgotten about the rule because I was too busy
chuckling at it.  (Velocity, not acceleration, darn it!) :)  I took
another look, and most of the mass I saved came off the laser.  So I
put the 7.7 tons of armor back on and upped the HEPlaR engine to 1021
tons thrust, and increased the power plant to match....

Changes to my changes are below.  Each line supersedes original line in
the design; RF-128-2 takes changes from RF-128, then apply its' changes.

Rampart RF-128

Hull Armor:   62
Price:        MCr 23.13
Mass:         169.5/165.8 tons (loaded ignores possible missile load)
Power Plant:  72.3 MW Fusion (72.3 MW/hit), 1 month duration
G-Rating:     6G (8.5 MW/G), CG Lifters (5 MW)
G-Turns:      48.8, 1.0635 cubic meters ea.
Maint:        3
Offensive:    1 x TL15 72 MJ laser lance (Loc. 1; Arc 1; 2 MW; no crew)
                   10:(1/6)-21  20:(1/6)-21  40:(1/3)-11  80:(1/2)-5
              4 x USL grapples for standard missiles

Rampart RF-128-2

Hull Armor:   62
Price:        MCr 23.39
Mass:         165.8/129 tons (loaded includes missile load @ 7 tons ea.)
G-Rating:     6G (8.5 MW/G), CG Lifters (5 MW)
G-Turns:      57.1, 1.0635 cubic meters ea.
Commo:        5 x 1000 AU maser
Controls:     2 x workstation
Offensive:    4 x USL grapples for standard missiles
Crew:         2 (Maneuver, Commander/Gunner)
Airlocks:     2 hatches

If you take the missile grapples off the laser-armed Rampart, you
can convert the space to fuel tankage and get up to 51 G-turns. 

>Any ideas on how to fudge the crew thing? 

It looks like the only jobs that can be held simultaneously with another
job are vehicle commander and gunner, judging by existing designs, and 
this is only done on very small vehicles.  In old Traveller, you could 
do this, but there were penalties to skill rolls if you did.  Maybe some
similar thing could be done here.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@tc.umn.edu>
 


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 14:04:24 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Rampart Errata
Message-ID: <199510151904.OAA15006@natasha.itlabs.umn.edu>


I noticed an error in my typing after I mailed the last message.
The contragrav consumes 0.9 MW, not 5 MW; I had used a 50-ton
design as a template when I entered the data, so it's a typo, not
a design error.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@tc.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:02:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (traveller)
Subject: TL13 Zho PF
Message-ID: <9510160102.AA25809@Rt66.com>


Here is the Zhodani Patrol Frigate from Adventure 6: Expedition to Zhodane.
The 8 ton fighter will follow.  I had to ignore the surface area requirement of
an open frame hull because it was stupid :-)  It required the ship to use the 
unmodified MVM, giving it the same area as a sphere (the lowest possible).  Open
frames should have the *most* area, not the least.  Yeesh, what stupidity.

-Merrick

General Data
------------
Displacement:	470/600 tons		Hull Armor:	30
Length:		85 meters		Volume:		6580/8400 kl
Price:		MCr 334.5		Target Size:	S
Configuration:	Open Frame		Tech Level:	13
Mass (Loaded/Empty):	8034.227/3840.977
 
Engineering Data
----------------
Powerplant:		825MW Fusion (103.125 MW/Hit), 1 yr. duration.
Jump:			4 (525 kl per jump number), 2100 kl fuel.
g-rating:		2 loaded (375 MW/g), 3 "unloaded" (250MW/g). 
			"unloaded" means craft are away.
g-turns:		50 (37.50 kl each), 108.21 with jump fuel.
Maint:			152
 
Electronics
-----------
Computers:		2xTL13 Fb (0.9 MW ea.)
			1xTL13 St (0.45 MW)
 
Commo:			300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10MW)
			2x1000AU Laser (inf, 0.3MW ea.)
			2x1000AU Maser (inf, 0.6MW ea.)
 
Avionics:		Fight Avionics (0.1MW)
			Navigational Aids (0.01MW)
 
Sensors:		PEMS Array 120,000km (4 hexes, 0.06MW)
			1000AU Radio Direction Finder (inf, 0.1MW)
			AEMS 480,000km (16 hexes, 50MW)
			Ladar 300,000km (10 hexes, 0.2MW)
			Densitometer (0.9MW)
			Neutrino Sensor (0.01MW)
 
ECM/ECCM:		EMS Jammer (10 hexes, 55MW)
			EM masking package (8.4MW)
			Decoy Dispenser (100 decoys, 1MW)
 
Controls:		Holographic Linked (0.6MW)
			Bridge with 7 bridge workstations.
			2 crew workstations.
 
 
Armament
--------
Offensive:		2xTL13 700/186MJ Laser Turret (Loc:10; Arcs:all;
			10.368MW, 1 crew ea., none assigned)
			Missile Turret (Loc:11; 3 ready msls;
			0.15MW,1 crew)
 
Defensive:		3xTL13 Sandcasters (Loc:1,12,13; Arcs:all; TL13 
			2d6x5 Reduc/Hit; 35 Cann ea.; 1MW ea.; 1 crew ea.)
MFDs:			TL13 Beam/Msl MFD (4 DiffMods; Msl:10 hexes; 
			10 hexes; 1.85MW ea.; 1 crew)
 
Accomodations
-------------
Life Support:		Extended (1.663MW)
			Gravtic Compensators (4g; 41.571MW)
 
Crew:			22: 2xEngineering, 1xElectronics, 2xManeuvering
			3xGunnery*, 1xMaintenance, 3xCommand, 10xFlight.
 
Crew Accom.:		10xSmall Staterooms (double; 0.0005MW ea.)
			3xLarge Staterooms (single; 0.0005MW ea.)
 
Cargo:			45.957 kl 
 
Small Craft:		1x50ton Refueling Shuttle (Ext. Grapple)
			10x8ton Fighter (Ext. Grapple)
 
FPP:			(0.75MW) 
 
Air Locks:		6
 
Notes
-----				
Loaded Mass includes fighters, shuttle, and all their missiles.  With craft ship
is 2g (375MW/g).  Without craft aboard it is 3g (250MW/g).  This is a tight 
ship.  The maint. crewman operates the missile launcher (loading, more or less).
The lasers are usually operated remotely from the MFD in the bridge by the idle 
crewman assigned to the second maneuver station (jump).  Being an older design 
in widespread use it is frequently improved.  Sometimes the large staterooms are
used with double occupancy to accommodate extra gunners, or a psionic adept at
life form searches.  TL14 turrets are sometimes dropped into the sockets to 
improve performance.  The 4 ton standard Zhodani sockets installed for the 
laser and missile turrets allow various specialized armaments (all laser, all 
missile, etc.).  Some have a reduced fighter squadron using the added volume as 
cargo (in a pod), or to carry 8 ton RPVs for remote sensor operations.
 
The fighters carry 3 S/FI HEPlaR missiles each--- usually armed with a 500kt 
det-laser warhead.  
 
The PF has a dome shaped main hull, connected to a tapering engineering section 
in the rear by a boom-like structure with 5 arms branching a short distance to 
each side of the boom (one branches upwards).  The fueler is accessed via the 
bottom of the boom (at the rear of the dome, actually), and the missile turret 
is above nearby (to facilitate reloading from the fueler).  The fighters each 
share an airlock with another fighter at the end of the armlike structures where
the docking grapples are mounted.
 
---------------------------------------------------------
TL13 650/173MJ Laser Turret (Zhodani standard, 4 tons)
 
This turret shares an HPG for a non-grav focused xray laser, and a smaller 
grav-focused tunable laser for atmospheric use.  Both may be fired at the same 
target as well, since the xray laser may only fire at a ROF of 100, and the HPG does 800.  Power quoted above is for 10 shots from either laser array.
 
650MJ X-Ray laser
-----------------	
10:1/20-64	20:1/13-41	40:1/7-21	80:1/3-10
 
173.29MJ laser		
--------------
1:1/11-33	2:1/5-16	4:1/3-8	8:1/1-4
 
Volume:56 kl	Mass:83.81 tonnes	Area:12.3m^2	
Cost (Imperial) MCr:2.606	
 
---------------------------------------------------------			
 
System Damage
-------------			
JD-13H	
MD-2H	 (2x1H drive units)			
PP-9H 
FPP-1H							
AEMS(proc)-4h
Neutrino Sensor-2h					
EMS Jammer-3h
EMM-1H
EMMR-8h							
LT-1H
MT-1H
SC-1H		
MFD-1H							
LS-10H
ELS-5H
AG-2H
SSR-2h
LSR-1H
All others-(1h)
 
Damage Tables
-------------
 
Area		Surface		Internal	
----		------------	----------------------------------
1		Ant		Elec(1-6), Qtrs(7-16), hold(17-20)
2-3		1-5Ant		Elec(1-5),LT(6-9),Qtrs(10-15),hold(16-20)
4-5		1-2Ant		Elec(1-2), SC(3-5), hold(6-20)
6-7		1-2Ant		Qtrs(1-10), hold(18-20)
8-9		1-2EMMR		hold
10		1-3AL,4-7Ant	SC(1-2), MT(3-6), Elec(7-11), hold(12-20) 
11		1AL,2EMMR	hold
12-13		1AL		hold
14-15		1-4EMMR		hold
16-19				Eng(1-8), hold(9-20)
20				Eng(1-18), hold(19-20)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:21:55 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (traveller)
Subject: TL13 Zho Fighter
Message-ID: <9510160121.AA26611@Rt66.com>

Hi,

here's the 8 ton fighter.  It was supposed to be 6g.  It doesn't have a
laser, so there really wasn't any way to get the gs up without trashing
the armor rule.

The HEPlaR Missile used on TL13 Zho ships is listed at the bottom.  It
is a S/FIM.  A controlled-only version was also made, but the flexibilty
of the S/FIM makes it a superior weapon.  The PF carries 6 reloads (more
if a/some fighter(s) are replaced with reloads in 8 ton pods.

General Data
------------
Displacement:	8 tons		Hull Armor:	50
Length:		13.2 meters	Volume:		112 kl
Price:		MCr 26.262	Target Size:	Mc
Configuration:	Cyl. SL		Tech Level:	13
Mass (Loaded/Empty):	230.011/206.057
 
Engineering Data
----------------
Powerplant:		81.68MW Fusion (81.68 MW/Hit), 2wk.s duration.
g-rating:		5 (11.5 MW/g),
			CG Lifters (0.8MW) 
g-turns:		50 (0.50 kl each)
Maint:			4
 
Electronics
-----------
Computers:		2xTL13 St (0.45 MW)
			
Commo:			30,000km Radio (1 hex, 0.02MW)
			1000AU Laser (inf, 0.3MW ea.)
 
Avionics:		Fight Avionics (0.1MW)
			Navigational Aids (0.01MW)
 
Sensors:		PEMS Array 60,000km (2 hexes, 0.06MW)
			AEMS 180,000km (6 hexes, 8MW)
			Ladar 300,000km (10 hexes, 0.2MW)
 
ECM/ECCM:		EM masking package (0.112MW)
			
Controls:		Holographic Linked (0.008MW)
			1 Workstation.
 
Armament
--------
Offensive:		3xExternal Grapple for 7kl missile.
 
Accomodations
-------------
Life Support:		Extended (0.021MW)
			Gravtic Compensators (4g; 0.529MW)
 
Crew:			1
 
Cargo:			0.468 kl 
 
Air Locks:		Hatch
 
Notes
-----				
The fighters carry 3 S/FI HEPlaR missiles each--- usually armed with a 500kt 
det-laser warhead.  
 
 
System Damage
-------------			
MD-2h	 			
PP-1H 
All others-(1h)
 
Damage Tables
-------------
 
Area		Surface		Internal	
----		------------	----------------------------------
1		1-4Ant		Elec
2-3		1-4Ant		Qtrs(1-15),Elec(16-20)
4-5		1-4Ant		Elec
6-7				Elec
8-9		1-17Msl		Elec(1-8), hold(9-20)
10				Elec(1-16), hold(17-20) 
11		1-17Msl		hold
12-13		1-2EMMR		Eng(1-7),hold(8-20)
14-15		1-17Msl		Eng(1-7),hold(8-20)
16-19				Eng
20				Eng
 
The Msl result for surface hits means a carried missile is hit and absorbs the 
damage.  Roll 1d6 to determine which missile, if the missile is gone, or 
previously destroyed then proceed to hull armor.
 
 
TL13 HEPlaR missile
 
Guidance	Yield	Mass	MCr	gturns	hits	damage  range	
-------------	-----	----	------	------	----	------- -----
Semi/Full.Ind.	500kt	7.3	2.1282	143	1d6	1/25-79   0	
 
 
comm		sensor		Signatures
----		------		--------------
10L		1P		+4/+3/+4/+3/+1
				


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End of TRAVELLER Digest 450
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